description: "“Someone Important Is Going To Die”: In Meeting With Abortion Pill Case Plaintiffs, Leading Anti-Abortion Lobbyist Fantasized About “Liberals” Dying From Self-Managed Abortions As Pretext To Ban Mifepristone"
tags:
- abortion rights
- politics
- leak
feature_image: /img/posts/opabortacpeds/cover.jpg
feature_alt: "an extremely unflattering screenshot of sue liebel talking in a zoom call"
---
> **note:** this is a collaborative release, the release and note below were worked on by multiple people
**files:** 1h16m zoom meeting of american college of pediatricians (acpeds) and susan b. anthony list (sba list) on 2022 march 24, discussing the upcoming dobbs v. jackson ruling overturning roe v. wade later leaked on 2022 may 2, in a manner that suggests advance knowledge of the decision; archive of sbalist private pre-Dobbs/post-Dobbs planning website and materials; acpeds internal strategy documents, meeting minutes, emails and other communications regarding dobbs, mifepristone, alliance for Hippocratic medicine, and collaborations with other plaintiffs
## background
acpeds is currently a plaintiff in alliance for hippocratic medicine v. fda, a case before the us supreme court seeking to withdraw the approval of the abortion pill mifepristone nationally. acpeds and other far-right Christian groups under the ahm umbrella (Christian medical & dental associations, American association of pro-life obstetricians & gynecologists) are represented by the virulently anti-lgbt alliance defending freedom (adf). Amicus briefs in ahm v. fda were also filed by sba list, national catholic bioethics center (ncbc) and charlotte lozier institute.
### 2022 march 24 pre-dobbs meeting
**meeting participants:** felipe vizcarrondo (acpeds), robin pierucci (acpeds pro-life council), jill simons (acpeds co-interim executive director with quentin l. van meter), arina grossu (acpeds comms strategist/lozier institute/trump admin hhs), anne nealen, sue swayze liebel (susan b. Anthony list state affairs lobbyist)
Sue Swayze Liebel, 16:23-17:04: “We want to emphasize that the likely outcome of Dobbs will be to allow – to take it back to the states. Overturn Roe, and go back to before Roe, which is when each state got to decide. … **The bad thing is it doesn’t outlaw abortion across the board. That’s going to make 50 different states, state decisions, and 50 different fights coming up.** So put on your seatbelt for that one.”
*Liebel, 18:25:* “I’m from Indiana. Theoretically, there could be, it probably won’t be this way but there could be 8,000 more pregnant women next year. Like, boom! Here they are. Because Indiana will make abortion illegal.”
*Liebel, 19:47:* “Because when Roe gets overturned, the media is going to go insane, they’re going to lose their minds.”
*Liebel, 24:00:* “You remember the Kavanaugh hearings, when there was so much violence and rudeness? I mean, it’s gonna look like that, yeah. The arguing is going to be just very intense.”
*Liebel, 27:07:* “But I don’t know that they’re gonna do that, because all these years, we have put our big toe on that line. Whatever that line we thought was viability, we went back. We tried for 15, we tried for heartbeat, we tried for 10, we tried for this, we tried for that. So we’re gonna – whatever they set it at, we’ll just keep trying to bring it back.”
*Liebel, 27:53:* “I think they’re going to – I think – they’re going to do away with the viability standard. I don’t think they’ll be talking about viability any more.”
*Liebel, 34:36:* “In the beginning of this, I thought, yeah, sure, right, they’re gonna give us 15 weeks, and here we go. But I’m convinced, I don’t think they will. Because when they give us a limit, whether it’s viability this last 48 years, or whether it would be 15 let’s say, **we still push it all into court and clog up the courts, and we’re gonna keep pushing and nothing will change. The pro-life community will keep pushing that across the line, and we’ll try to go to 14, and to 13, and to 12 – we’re gonna keep being bad boys and girls and keep - and just flood the courts.** And so I think they know that, I think they’re not gonna settle that by doing that.”
*Liebel, 38:01:* “What I’m about to say is not a statement by the Susan B. Anthony List, but it is of course a personal position of my own. **I used to think that Planned Parenthood was my enemy. And now I’m starting to realize that the modern medical profession is actually who I also fight every day.”**
*Liebel, 47:18:* “You close the front door, but the pills are going out the back door. Or there’s no door, she’s just ordering it online and it comes straight to her home and nobody knows it.”
*Liebel, 47:46:* “It’s kind of like it’s going to come back on the medical community one way or another, but it’s going to be devastating at some point. **I happen to believe that someone’s going to – someone… someone important is going to die. Some movie star’s sister or some singer’s girlfriend or, you know, I mean somebody that the liberals will care about.** And then it’ll bring some attention to that issue.”
*Liebel, 48:20:* “We really are going to have to beef up the services that we provide to women. So if you don’t volunteer already for a crisis pregnancy center or women’s care network type of place, or just your local Catholic Charities, or anything, I really recommend that you do.”
*Liebel, 48:50:* “I think that you’re going to find they’re gonna flourish. And there are gonna be a lot of new creative solutions, and creative programs, and health and wellness-oriented programs that’ll be expanding.”
*Liebel, 49:20:* “And this is gonna be really tricky for the conservative community, like I used to work on my family policy council and I’m a super conservative person. So by default, you know, we’re like we don’t want to increase social services, we don’t more welfare spending, we don’t want all that. Well, of course not. However, we want to end abortion. And when we end abortion, we’re gonna have more women needing services. **Now not all those women are poor, that is a fallacy. Many of those women are just college girls that don’t want to be pregnant. Right? But there’s going to be a demand for services. And women are going to have to be shown that they’re worthy, they’re worthy of care.”**
### the rest
Acpeds files contain their collaborations with the cmda, aaplog, and adf, their long term efforts against mifepristone, against contraception, against transitioning, against marriage equality, against gay parents, in favor of conversion therapy on children, in favor of parents hitting their children as a punishment, in favor of medical abuse and forced detransition, and in favor of forced pregnancy and birth
Ahm v fda dockets: [2:22-cv-00223](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65768749/alliance-for-hippocratic-medicine-v-us-food-and-drug-administration/), [23-10362](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67164167/alliance-hippocratic-medicine-v-fda/)
> if you liked this or any of my other work feel free to support me on my [ko-fi](https://ko-fi.com/nyancrimew). i am unemployed and poor and do this work for free because i enjoy it, so anything goes a long way. ko-fi also makes it easy to do recurring donations akin to patreon subscirptions, which help me a lot with budgeting.
#### note about future publishing
after getting permanently suspended from twitter twice in quick succession for nonsense reasons i have decided to finally just completely give up on it as a viable platform for (independent) journalism, i will not be rejoining twitter for the time being. to subscribe to my future publications subscribe to the [rss feed](https://maia.crimew.gay/feed.xml) of this blog, [my tumblr](https://nyancrimew.tumblr.com), or [my reddit account](https://reddit.com/u/nyancrimew).
if you enjoyed this or any of my other work feel free to support me on my <span class="like-a">ko-fi</span>. this is my only real source of income so anything goes a long way,
and monthly contributions help tremendously with budgeting.
@ -66,8 +66,4 @@ i had owned them completely in less than a day, with pretty much no skill requir
## so what happens next with the nofly data
while the nature of this information is sensitive, i believe it is in the public interest for this list to be made available to journalists and human rights organizations. if you are a journalist, researcher, or other party with legitimate interest, the data is available for access (upon request) [via DDoSecrets](https://ddosecrets.com/wiki/No_Fly_List).
## support me
if you liked this or any of my other security research feel free to support me on my [ko-fi](https://ko-fi.com/nyancrimew). i am unemployed and in a rather precarious financial situation and do this research for free and for the fun of it, so anything goes a long way.
while the nature of this information is sensitive, i believe it is in the public interest for this list to be made available to journalists and human rights organizations. if you are a journalist, researcher, or other party with legitimate interest, the data is available for access (upon request) [via DDoSecrets](https://ddosecrets.com/wiki/No_Fly_List).
@ -22,6 +22,4 @@ you are allowed to take a break and fight in other ways.
so anyways, here is 810 more eml files (which can be viewed with most desktop email clients) + most (but not all) attachments already extracted as files:
**the emails pt. 2 - 810 more emails of anti trans hate.zip (810 eml files, ~30mb), available as a [torrent](/files/emails2.torrent) ([magnet](magnet:?xt=urn:btih:44f004807f862afb2d74d76df5e23506b88e5948&dn=the%20emails%20pt.%202%20-%20810%20more%20emails%20of%20anti%20trans%20hate.zip))**
> if you liked this or any of my other work feel free to support me on my [ko-fi](https://ko-fi.com/nyancrimew). i am unemployed and poor and do this work for free because i enjoy it, so anything goes a long way.
**the emails pt. 2 - 810 more emails of anti trans hate.zip (810 eml files, ~30mb), available as a [torrent](/files/emails2.torrent) ([magnet](magnet:?xt=urn:btih:44f004807f862afb2d74d76df5e23506b88e5948&dn=the%20emails%20pt.%202%20-%20810%20more%20emails%20of%20anti%20trans%20hate.zip))**
@ -19,5 +19,3 @@ there are extensive discussions between deutsch and notorious anti-gay and anti-
the emails describe a wider national effort against transition treatment for minors, which included discussions with idaho rep. julianne young and sen. steve vick, georgia rep. ginny earhart, and florida rep. anthony sabatini. several anti-lgbt conservative legal groups are intimately involved in the discussion, including alliance defending freedom, adf-affiliated detransitioners hacsi horvath and walt heyer, eunie smith of eagle forum, adf-linked attorney vernadette r. broyles of the child & parental rights campaign, jane robbins of the american principles project, kara dansky and natasha chart of women’s liberation front, richard mast of liberty counsel, and emily zinos of minnesota family council and hands across the aisle. more recently, the transphobia-captured state of alabama harassed the endocrine society and wpath with subpoenas for their internal communications regarding hate groups and individuals participating in the deutsch emails, including segm, the american college of pediatricians, michael laidlaw, william malone, andre van mol, michelle cretella, and quentin van meter. the release of the deutsch emails is in the public interest and brings an equivalent level of transparency to the internal work of these major anti-trans advocacy and lobbying groups.
**CLARIFICATION: i, maia, am not the source of this email leak, merely a publisher, since i feel that this should be more widely available than just to selected journalists**
> if you liked this or any of my other work feel free to support me on my [ko-fi](https://ko-fi.com/nyancrimew). i am unemployed and poor and do this work for free because i enjoy it, so anything goes a long way.
maia arson crimew